Diablo Mafia (Prime Evils win)

[Faiz]

"You're still completely avoiding this question asked by Kaa, that I shall once again quote"

Then ask me to answer instead of using it to accuse me of stuff.  As for an answer, I doubt you would have been clueless to it as you commented about Raka's very first reaction, and you being willing to drop it altogether and declare that everything was the same (I know you've already given an reason for that, but that timing was still bad).  I don't see how discussion on it would have been "jumping the gun" unless you decided to peg someone as obvtown/scum right there.

"Again, HOW? does that make me scum? Quit avoiding the question!"

I originally thought that people were trying to push bad cases and scummy claim requests on you.  Now I know otherwise.  I would call it less condemning and more of a solidifier.

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Also I am going to sleep soon and I'm not sure if my lynch is going to happen before I wake up, I'm claiming now that I'm a Survivor:

*I can use those items that get listed after the lynch, but I have to be on the wagon to get the loot.  Yesterday I picked up the Spetum, which turned out to be Shadow Wood.
*I started with two one-shot abilities.  Last night I used a scroll of identify to alignment cop Kaa, because I wanted a clear read on Raka/Kaa going foward and Kaa looked the scummier of the two.  I hadn't noticed that he had claimed a night action though.  Not revealing my other one-shot at the moment.
*My wincon also requires the Prime Evils dead.  I also know of another player that shares my wincon.  I'd prefer if they didn't claim right now.
*My vote is Physical.  Kinda breadcrumb'd it over in 119.  I'm currently not sure if my equips change this:  Shadow Wood comes with Lightning damage, but I currently have no interest in voting Bremm or Beetleburst (especially not Beetleburst  :V )

And with that, sleep, will answer questions in the morning if I'm still alive.

[Den-O]

Survivor claim means kill with fire.

Today is open and shut, folks. Be sure to add anything you need to get out there soon because Sorceress needs to die.

[Faiz]

Did you miss the part where I said the Prime Evils have to be dead for me to win?  I'll be honest:  Both my starting items gave me a choice of two abilities, and my remaining item gives me one-shot governor.  I'm not going to use it though because if you deem that I must die then so be it.  I was planning on using the other ability anyways.

[Faiz]

(EBWDP:  ID Scroll's other ability was rolecop, before anyone asks)

[Den-O]

I actually don't give a shit. You're non town. You die. You could EASILY be lying about your win con.

There's absolutely no reason for us to let you live.

[Ryuki]

Waiting for votecount before I vote to L-1

[Punch Hopper]

I was all set to do hard rereading to make sure I wasn't tunneling.
Then Sorceress made me feel half-better.
I want to know why you chose to cop Kaa instead of Nihlathak.
If you're a Survivor I don't believe you when you say you won't use a Governor ability. Especially if someone else shares your win condition. But I have to pause and consider. If what you're saying IS true, you're our cop.

##Unvote

I want people to seriously consider this. Is it worth it to let him live one night in order to give us rolecop results?

[Ryuki]

Role is absolutely not affiliated with alignment at all. Remember back in Jojo's when scum had a universal doctor?

[Punch Hopper]

It doesn't matter. We're not talking about a doctor or a serial killer. We're talking about information.
What he's claimed he has little reason to fake. He's given us no incentive to keep him alive past tomorrow. Nor would we need to. Correct me if I'm wrong, Sorceress. Do you still win if your partner manages to survive until the end? If this question is answered yes, he will have no reason to lie to us tomorrow. Even if he does not win with us. He needs to help us find the scum.

[Kabuto]

I got side-tracked when doing my reread.  But I read enough to think that summoner is probably not scum. 

I'm not thrilled with the subsequent cases against Bremm, with Barbarian followed by Eyeback which show particular shallowness.  Blood's is a bit more believable.

I believe sorc to be telling the truth about her role and alignment,  however I'm treating her as cult.

My first guess as to her "partner" is that it's Eyeback.  Gut.  Although it makes sense for the partner to be on the countess wagon but off the sorc wagon today... Bremm?

@Raka, how would a 3rd party sorc flip effect your read of summoner? (and for the others on your list for that matter)

I'd rather kill Bremm since I still believe he's scum, but at this point Sorc, your lynch is a necessity. 

@sorc, your governer ability was gotten after countess was lynched correct?  Who do you think is scum again? Still Summoner?

@Coldcrow, I agree, but why take the chance he did fake it?

[Kabuto]

EBWOP:  That should be "Why take the chance she didn't fake it?"

[Punch Hopper]

Thinking logically, the only reason I considered her to be faking it is if she were actually scum.
This was dismissed by considering that claim as scum would be more useful without saying Survivor.
I had not considered a cult.
It would still cause her not to lie, but make lynching a higher priority.
I'm unsure if the previous logic for why scum would not claim this holds true for a cultist.

[Den-O]

Assuming she's telling the truth (a BIG assumption), sure, we could afford to give her another night. Except, uh, WE HAVE NO GUARANTEE SHE'S TELLING THE TRUTH AT ALL. In other words, her claim is pretty tailored to living one more night. For all we know she's an SK type player, or even outright scum. Giving her another night to live would advance a NON TOWN WIN CON. Basically, no matter what she actually is, we're guaranteed to lynch scum by lynching her.

Cult is also a good point.

@Beetle: Eh, Barb is still independently awful but less so without Sorc mafia. Eyeback or Nih can die in a fire since they're completely unrelated to Sorc, just they look awful. Summoner, not sure, still getting Derp town from him.

[Pesco]

Jail Votecount

Sorceress (2.5): Poisoned, Rakanishu, Nihlathak
Bremm Sparkfist (3.5): Beetleburst, Bloodwitch, Barbarian, Eyeback
The Summoner (2) Fire Eye, Sorceress
Fire Eye (1):  Corpsefire
Eyeback (1): The Summoner

Not voting: Bremm Sparkfist, Coldcrow

12 alive, 5 votes for a lynch.
43% time remaining
Replacement for Corpsefire has been requested and awaiting confirmation.

[Punch Hopper]

Another replacement? I supose we have time for them to catch up.
Considering the points brought up I have to agree it's not worth the risks.
I still want to see Sorceress's answers and the opinions of the rest.
For now.

##Vote: Sorceress

[Ryuki]

##Unvote
##Vote: Sorceress

Going to sleep and going to be busy for most of tomorrow, so I might miss deadline (maybe not if nobody lynches)

Cut by Cold

Guess this puts her at L-1.5

[Kabuto]

interesting Votecount again.  I find myself wondering why there is no charged bolt half vote on Barb or Bloodwitch since they don't have immunity.  Also In future, I feel like we should consider "largest bandwaggon" as the wagon with the most people on it, not purely on the power of those votes.  Bremm has 4 people whose voting power is reduced to 2.5.  Meanwhile Sorc has 2 votes plus poison to bring it to the same total.

Anyway if my vote is needed, I can move it to sorc.

[Kabuto]

Going to sleep now.  My cat looks pissed that the light's still on.

[Punch Hopper]

I had thought Corpsefire caused the half-vote from Charged Bolt when he voted yesterday.
I now believe I was mistaken and the Poisoned half-vote is that same power.
This does mean I must actually read Corpsefire closer.
The general good feelings I received from him may have been too tainted by perceived town power.

[Sasword]

Cutting myself for now; followup coming.

At first I thought Sorceress claimed a one-shot self-governor ability, in which case kill it with fire because I don't think Pesco is bastardly enough to include a self-governing anti-town role. Still, I don't think leaving a claimed third party alive is a good idea, since it's probable she's lying about her role so we won't lynch her today. She's the lynch for today, and I'll switch over at deadline if there aren't enough votes.

Sorceress, you say another player shares your wincon. Do you know their alignment?

[Sasword]

EBWOP:
@Sorceress: Also, could you tell us more about these Prime Evils?

[Sasword]

@Bloodwitch the Wild: Are you defending me or are you going for my lynch?
Also, where is your own case? All you are doing is rephrasing Beetleburst.
Do you really have nothing to add?
I'm not accepting the claim that Beetleburst has said everything about me,
and why is Barbarian immediately in the clear due to GUT?
You've stated yourself that his posts were pretty useless. The fact that you cleared him so quickly with only a semi-reliable reason is suspicious.

I was defending you? I'm voting you because I think there's a good chance you're scum.

Here is my case.

Bremm's first post of D2 is pretty bad, but Beetleburst already covered most of it; there's no indication of scum suspicions. His day one activity is also pretty lackluster. The vote on Countess makes absolutely no sense, given he had "better" points on Summoner and Sorcerer. Most everything else I wanted to say has already been said by Beetleburst.

To elaborate, you're asking a lot of questions, but as I see it they're not really leading anywhere. Who do you think is scum? Who isn't (optional)?   
The post where you voted Countess showed that you had scum reads on Summmoner and Sorceress...but then you ended up voting Countess for a weaker reason that I still can't understand. You provided another reason for a Countess vote D2, but I didn't see any of that in your D1 posts, so it occurs to me as a reason you provided after the fact.

On Barbarian, I hold reservation that scum would be so deliberately useless. Barbarian's player can show more competent scumplay than this. I'm not saying this clears him, but I'm wary about casting judgement so quickly on play best described as "transparently bad." It seems like a relative town tell for him.

Anyway, Barbarian is kind of rich for calling out Bremm for post padding when the majority of his own content is fluff. Why are Bremm and Nih obvscum? I missed it in your posts.

Nihlathak needs to explain his reads and troll less regarding Raka and Crow if he's not going to have serious suspicions of them.

I can't really follow how Fire Eye reaches his conclusions. Townish null due to gut, because he seems reasonable enough. I have some questions I'll ask him in another post.

Eyeback's #254 makes me raise my eyebrows. What was so special about #169 that you chose to point it out over any of the other posts Bremm made? Not having reads is bad, as I've said, but what's wrong about asking Nihaldkjst for reads even if he has yet to provide his own?

[W]

Wait... WAIT WHAT? WHAT am I reading?!?! First I thought Sorceress was derp, but now with that unexpected claim, I am 'WTF'.

What makes her claim suddenly scum? I want clarification on this  Survivor role.

Summoner's replies on my questions... they make sense now. I am satisfied with those answers. #255 and #265 are enough for me. Putting summoner as undecided for now.

Also its a game bro, I apologise if I pissed you off or anything.

Eyeback's last post is horrible. His #216 looked bad and he is now trying to slip his way from it seems.

Until I got some clarification and answers from people here...

##Unvote
##Vote EyeBack

[Sasword]

This is a Survivor.
There's no guarantee that Sorceress is actually a Survivor though. She could be any of these or even mafia.

[Skull]

I knew the player Characters had some special significance. I figured they were part of the main scumteam, and that the key that Countess dropped was part of our punishment for mislynching (scumteam getting more role power, or directly furthering wincondition), But now it looks as if they're simply an alternate scumteam.

The "I lose if I get lynched" "I can prevent the lynch" "Oh, but I won't prevent mine because it's anti-town" Sound pretty Schizo to me. At least one of these things is a lie if the player intents to follow the first rule of this game.

I doubt we have anything like a Cult, but this pretty much confirms to me that we have multiple scumteams. Sorc is a huge danger since we can't rule out her win condition also involving the town's death, but She and her buddy seem to be our only source of powerroles outside of votemessing.

this also means my low-effort reads have dropped in value, despite being correct. I'm still keeping my vote because at best, Sorc is trying to appease the town, and at worst lying.

[Punch Hopper]

Looking at posts made before Sorceress simplified the day for us.
Good news Raka! I've found a read on Nihlathak that we can both enjoy!

Rakanishi probably isn't scum, which means I'll need to work extra hard if I want to vote her. I doubt there's a third party so I'm out of luck, here.

##FoS Nihlatahgks

Considering what was just revealed, this sounds like a setup. Which faction is most likely to just 'happen' to mention a third party? Which faction will then want to set up other people as possibilities for being them? Hint the answer is not town or scum.

Currently I would say his situation is perfect for a third party. Everyone is suspicious of him but no one is willing to lynch him. This still makes him not red. If Sorceress is flipped something besides Survivor I will panic in his direction. If not? Red first and others will follow.

If my theory is correct, coldcrow is the other one I was going to lynch. At least with her, I have the meta excuse that she's impossible to read as anything but town, regardless of actual alignment.

So I'm a town read but you want to lynch me anyways? That's cold. See what I did there? Are you planning to share your theory before or after you get killed by a vigilante?

[Pesco]

Inner Cloister Votecount

Sorceress (4.5): Poisoned, Rakanishu, Nihlathak, Coldcrow, The Summoner
Bremm Sparkfist (3.5): Beetleburst, Bloodwitch, Barbarian, Eyeback
The Summoner (1) Sorceress
Fire Eye (1):  Corpsefire
Eyeback (1): Fire Eye

Sorcess is at L-0.5
Not voting: Bremm Sparkfist

12 alive, 5 votes for a lynch.
40% time remaining
The last votecount had a mistake and is now corrected.

[Faiz]

@Raka:  *shrug*

@Coldcrow:  At this point, there's almost no point to governor-saving myself, because the next day could very easily wind up being me getting policy lynched.  Alignment cop and rolecop were tied to the same one-shot, should have made that a tad clearer.  Reason for copping Kaa I explained.  As for #278:  I doubt it, just because of our nature.  They still have no reason to lie though.

@Beetle:  I started with that ability.  And... wait, you believe me and then treat me as something completely different?  When did "cult" enter your thought process?

@Raka 282: ... Didn't I just claim I had a way of getting that night, everyone's intentions be damned?

@Beetle:  ... huh, I thought Charged Bolt was specifically your ability.

@Bloodwitch:  I have no info on the Prime Evils that isn't already out there.  As for the other question: No, but that wincon kinda shoehorns them into the same position as I.

@Fire Eye:  See: Bloodwitchlink.  Usually they win with either side (which is why you see people calling for my head post-claim), but having to kill off the Prime Evils as well gives me a slight bias.

@Nihlathak:  "But now it looks as if they're simply an alternate scumteam." <- Think about the implications of this for a moment.  Seriously.

All things considered, I've pretty much considered myself as a town role from the start.  And trying to keep myself alive just for the point of doing so would go against my wincon of killing some scum, and it wouldn't really help my survivor wincon because it honestly does nothing to make people not want to lynch me, outside of saving them the trouble because I could die overnight instead.

As for stuff not relating to claims:

@Beetle:  Summoner/Nihlathak still, not sure on any others at the moment.

I... also thought the Charged Bolt was your ability, since that's what Beetles do.  I can't really test that theory at the moment because of the obvious ramifications, so yeah. 

@Nihl:  ... The implications of the stuff you say in that first paragraph are so mind-boggling.  Also, how can you be so certain about your reads of they're "low effort" and still not stated.

And Coldcrow, I'd most certainly be willing to lynch Nihlathak at this point.

[Den-O]

@Coldcrow: I like it! The thing is though, the multiple scumteam spec with no real basis for it feels more like someone who's part of a 2 scum team who's finally seen some things click.

@Sorc: Yes. You claimed you had a way of getting that night. It's a pretty convenient way to dissuade us from lynching you. Excuse me if I don't believe you.

Fire Eye defending Sorc so blatantly gives me huge partner tells from him.

[Faiz]

@Raka: *shrug again* 

I'll go ahead and claim the rest of it, since I was trying to bait the NK with the threat of a night action:  Second item's a Scroll of Town Portal, and its other ability was Commuter.