Nue Quest Alter Code 6: A Z-Machine Adventure

[Rin Kagamine]

He still hasn't defined what he means by "1/3 of the way".  We can already get quite close to him and I highly doubt another third will make any kind of difference.  Though since he hasn't defined what he means by 1/3 it could mean 1/3 of the way across the room, limiting or ability to approach even more.  I see that as a much bigger exchange and would probably generate a bigger spark than trading for a few inches if that.

[Kilgamayan]

Feel free to ask.

[GuyYouMetOnline]

I think we should give the cold more time to work.

[communist unity (comm-unity)]

The alternative is burning his house down. Which I'm pretty sure will have some consequences. (it would still be funny)

[Kilgamayan]

Well, the people have spoken. Gonna put this last bit out there for the sake of posterity, just so we have something to look at after this is over (since it's likely the best summation of the situation), and then we'll move on.

[20:32:25] <DracoOmega> I can think of essentially two reasons that he might offer Nue a deal of some kind all of a sudden
[20:32:56] <DracoOmega> 1) Because he needs it, for some reason. Either what he's asking for specifically, or more likely the spark that would be generated from it
[20:33:30] <DracoOmega> 2) Because whatever part of his obsession is fueling that refuses to NOT let him make offers on what he knows people want and what is in his power to provide
[20:35:34] <DracoOmega> In the case of 1, obviously letting him have it is intrinsically bad. In the case of 2... it may be debateable, I suppose, but it relies on a lot of unverifable assumptions
[20:37:50] <DracoOmega> If the reasoning behind 2 is at all correct, he may be likewise compelled to offer all the rest of it in turn, which obviously gives us SOME chance to do something. But, it's also easily possible that whatever we'd need to trade to get the rest of the way would leave us too weak to do anything, and he may have other layers of defenses past the current one

[20:41:22] <DracoOmega> I have to imagine that the spark he'd get from this would be pretty major, though. A major intrinsic part of a person in exchange for... walking across a couple feet, at most?
[20:41:34] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Most likely, yes.
[20:41:44] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> (Assuming the sparks are not static.)
[20:41:50] <DracoOmega> I mean, my first instinct is: he's actually pressed
[20:41:57] <DracoOmega> Whether he says he's bothered or not
[20:42:36] <DracoOmega> I mean, that was part of what Patchy said: he may not have flexibility, because he's commited nearly all of his resources
[20:42:50] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Yep.
[20:43:34] <DracoOmega> So, really, the only circumstances under which trading anything like that seems like even a remotely good idea is if we KNEW that he would trade the rest of the way, that the price would be manageable, and that he wouldn't have some other defense that rendered melee range irrelevant on top of it
[20:44:07] <DracoOmega> Which... is a hell of a lot of assumptions, considering we only get our ability back if he WANTS it (or possibly if we disempower him or defeat him, MAYBE)

> Nod.
> Give the ice another minute.

[Hello Purvis]

>You nod, though you have no idea whether he can see it.
>You wait a little longer, and don't really note any other changes. How long does it take for someone to succumb to the cold, anyways?

>_

[Kilgamayan]

Well, what now? Do we keep waiting around, or do we go back upstairs?

[Blitzer]

If somebody wants to do something now, do it. Otherwise, we go back upstairs.

[Kilgamayan]

> Do we have any knowledge of Byakuren magically lifting buildings into the air?

[Hello Purvis]

> Do we have any knowledge of Byakuren magically lifting buildings into the air?

>You know she was able to do it with some structure in the lake, some time back, but you never got the whole story.

>_

[Kilgamayan]

> Is the floor around Rinnouske still unblemished, or is it covered in ice?

[Kilgamayan]

Floating more ideas.

[22:22:30] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> So if no Yukari and no Komachi, and no way of knowing how much time we have to run around and find someone, what then?
[22:23:17] <DracoOmega> Byakuren lifted a whole shrine off the ocean floor in Reisen Quest. I wonder if she could lift Kourdinou off the basement? (Assuming this would even accomplish anything) >.>;
[22:26:00] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Also worth noting: While not all of Rinnosuke's basement is currently covered in ice, most of it is.
[22:26:15] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Which means that, if we have a source of heat, most of his basement is covered in water waiting to happen.
[22:26:33] <DracoOmega> Hmmm... does this include the part right over him?
[22:26:44] <DracoOmega> (Not that this probably matters, but...)
[22:27:05] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> I don't think the ceiling above him is iced.
[22:27:14] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> The floor is almost completely iced, though, and there's a lot of it on the walls.
[22:27:50] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> And then there's also the fact that dramatic climate swings tend to wreak total havoc on the sinuses.
[22:28:12] <DracoOmega> The goal in all this is to either force him from the basement or wreck his concentration, right?
[22:28:17] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Yep./
[22:29:10] <DracoOmega> Do we even have any idea where Tenshi is right now, if we were to try and get her involved in this?
[22:29:26] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> We last saw her yesterday, with her sword class.
[22:29:41] <DracoOmega> Yes, but not since? Nor heard of her whereabouts?
[22:30:02] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Not since. Generally this is implied by "last saw her". >_>
[22:30:08] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> And we haven't heard anything either, no.
[22:30:10] <DracoOmega> Yes, yes, sorry
[22:30:46] <DracoOmega> And I guess Mokou was brought along for the fire angle?
[22:31:11] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Yes.
[22:31:32] <DracoOmega> Although I wonder... if she really does set fire to the place, what happens if it starts destroying any of that stuff down there? =/
[22:34:29] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Cirno seemed to survive the damage that the cold invariably did to his goods.
[22:35:10] <DracoOmega> Well, her ice seems quite 'reversable' without harm, even if logically it might have caused some damage in the process
[22:35:17] <DracoOmega> I wonder if intent might matter?
[22:35:29] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Maybe.
[22:35:34] <DracoOmega> Because I would like to think that even he wouldn't go around doing that to someone who accidentally knocked something off the shelf
[22:35:52] <DracoOmega> And Cirno wasn't TRYING to break anything
[22:36:23] <DracoOmega> I wonder... can you think of any way to suck the air out of that room?
[22:38:03] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Suika?
[22:38:10] <DracoOmega> Ha, I was just about to say the same thing
[22:38:42] <DracoOmega> And, this may be effective even if she can't 'gather' the air from near Rinnosuke
[22:38:59] <DracoOmega> Since if that's the only bit he can save, he's obviously going to use up the oxygen in it
[22:39:04] <DracoOmega> Without air exchange
[22:39:39] <DracoOmega> I wonder if someone could set up an airtight barrier around it, too?
[22:39:47] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Possibly.
[22:39:56] <DracoOmega> Actually... if you had an airtight barrier with a fire in it, it would eventually consume the oxygen
[22:41:06] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> I talked to Mokou about the using-fire-to-consume-all-the-oxygen idea, and she said "yeah, fire works that way, but I'm not gonna do it".
[22:41:13] <DracoOmega> ...why?
[22:42:26] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Asphyxiation isn't pleasant.
[22:42:32] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Also, Mokou.
[22:42:36] <DracoOmega> And burning IS?
[22:43:02] <DracoOmega> Frankly, I'm quite certain that asphyxiation would be less unpleasant than being on fire
[22:44:00] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> > "I only see one entrance to this place. If we sealed it somehow, could you burn up all the oxygen in the room?"
[22:44:04] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> >"Yeah, but I'm not going to," she says. She looks upward. "Don't think that ceiling is airtight, anyways."
[22:44:10] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> > "Eh, all right.  Just figured it was worth asking."
[22:44:17] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> >"Trust me," says Mokou, "Good things don't come from trying to suffocate people."
[22:44:17] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> >She glances toward Cirno.
[22:44:17] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> >"Not that giving 'em frostbite is that much better, but at least it's not so quick."
[22:44:45] <DracoOmega> Huh. Can't say I agree with her reasoning in this case, but...
[22:45:02] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> I'm not about to tell Mokou off.
[22:45:11] <DracoOmega> I wasn't going to suggest it

[Hello Purvis]

> Is the floor around Rinnouske still unblemished, or is it covered in ice?

>The floor around him seems to be bare earth. The ice itself had stopped a little past the halfway point between him and the edge of the treasures.

>_

[Kilgamayan]

> What do we know of Suika Ibuki?

[Hello Purvis]

> What do we know of Suika Ibuki?

>She is one of the Devas, and left the Ancient City some time ago pretty much on a whim; it caused a fair amount of trouble until Kay and Yuugi agreed to take care of her part of the city until she decides to come back. She is very much not to be trifled with. You're not certain what her abilities are, but you know that she is quite powerful and capable even for an oni. You've had brief meetings with her in the past, and found her to be pleasant, in a perpetually inebriated fashion.

>_

[GuyYouMetOnline]

>What about Komachi Onozuka?

[Hello Purvis]

>What about Komachi Onozuka?

>You know she's the ferrywoman that takes care of the departed souls that need to cross over the Sanzu River.

>_

[GuyYouMetOnline]

>Do we know of her power?

[Hello Purvis]

>Do we know of her power?

>You assume it's something involving ghosts.

>_

[Kilgamayan]

Something about everything here has been bugging me for a while. Initially I assumed it was founded entirely in metagaming, but in reflecting on it some more I think I've realize a legitimate in-game reason as to why not only accepting his offer is a legitimate, but is actually preferable to frostbite, heat exhaustion, asphyxiation, earthquakes, destruction of property, and everything else we've considered. I don't have the time right now to write it up proper, but I should be able to on my lunch break in about 2.5 hours, so please hold off going back upstairs until then. (Try asking more info self-questions in the meantime.)

[Kilgamayan]

Thought about it some more, and I'm not quite as sure as I was before, though I still think it's worthy of serious consideration.

It occurred to me that beat him up or roasting him or freezing him or whatever may stop him, but it would really only treat the symptoms of the problem. It wouldn't change his mind on anything; sparks and whatnot would be no less his reality. What he's offering us is our first real legitimate change to treat the disease, because it'll turn into a clash of faith. Look at past quests and check the resets of our approaches. Utsuho treated the symptoms by telling 'Nakko and 'Wakko off before torching them, and she ended up with a number of enemies who needed to be placated by Mary. On the other hand, Iku (eventually) played by Shuuei's rules and let Shuuei see the ways of things for herself, and by treating the disease, not only did Iku get her home back, but she even got a cute little new friend to boot.

I realize - and have stated myself - that it seems completely irrational to take his offered path. And it is. Because faith gives no fucks about rationality. That's what makes it faith. If there's anything Nue has faith in, it's herself, and with faith in herself and the current system, I think she can topple the tower he's building.

This would be wordier but I like my lunch time. I'll expand on things if needed (which I'm sure include my conclusion that Rinnosuke is not acting maliciously), but that'll have to wait until I get home.

[E-Nazrin]

My main concern is that a lot of this faith stuff seems contrary to Nue's character. Others might be able to stand up to this, but I'm doubtful of her.

Admittedly if it worked such convenient trading would be kinda neat but I can't accept the power grab that comes with it, and the risks of abuse are substantial.

[Kilgamayan]

Faith can manifest itself in more ways than the obvious religious context. Nue may not be a preacher, but there are still things she stands for.

[E-Nazrin]

Oh yeah, that reminds me of the brief crack theory I had of bringing in that thief from town for that sort of purpose. :V

[Sophilia]

Well, we're not exactly an ideological marvel.  And our objection is more to how the change is being carried out than the change itself, which is all Rinnosuke cares about.  If we're to go into a battle of wills, it may not be impossible, but we'd be at a serious disadvantage.  Of course, there's nothing saying we have to do it alone.  We have the Myouren crew on our side already, and I'm sure there are others who would oppose this on grounds of faith.  A certain shadowwalker comes to mind, but that may not be feasible.

[Kilgamayan]

> Did we pull out the sword pieces in the basement when we were in it the last time, before we needed to be escorted from the premises?

[Hello Purvis]

> Did we pull out the sword pieces in the basement when we were in it the last time, before we needed to be escorted from the premises?

>You did and you put them together, as you've taken to doing lately. The reaction was the same as it always was.

>_

[Kilgamayan]

> What's the status on the translation of the sword runes, again?

[Hello Purvis]

> What's the status on the translation of the sword runes, again?

>No progress, when last you checked on Patchouli. She has been directing her energies largely toward the monetary situation.

>_

[Kilgamayan]

> Was her assistant working on it at all?