WHAT DID I HAVE DONE?! I CAN STILL FIGHT! STG Thread X-Mode!

[Zengeku]

Oh my god. They should make a DoDonPachi Fun label that cuts the first two stages. They are so fucking boring. Stage 3 is actually pretty boring too. Then comes Stage 4 and I somehow lose three lives and the entire run fails when the final boss throws a wall at me. I don't mind the failure too much, everything in the game is legitimately challenging but having to redo the first half of the game when the first actual challenge is the Stage 3 boss' final attack kills the fun a bit.


EDIT: My gods, I am bad at this game. Two attempts later I managed to clear though. Crappy run as expected but a 1cc nonetheless. Screw anyone who says otherwise, Ketsui is childs play compared to this game man.

Future goals would be getting better at Stages 4 and 5 since my performance on those were horrible on all of my runs. Especially Stage 4.
Oh and Mushihimesama Futari kicks ass for not having any loops but seperate difficulties.

[Erppo]

I don't mind the failure too much, everything in the game is legitimately challenging but having to redo the first half of the game when the first actual challenge is the Stage 3 boss' final attack kills the fun a bit

That's just because you're doing it wrong. You are meant to try to chain the stages you have no trouble NMNBing and somehow I doubt you're doing that.

[Zengeku]

No. I am not interested in score unless the score systems are very intuitive like it is in MoF. Memorization < Improvisation.

[Erppo]

Uhhhh, MoF is pretty much ZUN's take on the DDP system.

I just mean that if you're not playing the game as it was intended, it's dumb to complain about it.

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

It's not a very good take on it then.

You're actually rewarded for bombing in MoF and you can't even full chain most of the stages.

[Sapz]

No. I am not interested in score unless the score systems are very intuitive like it is in MoF. Memorization < Improvisation.

Why? It is the solution to the very problem you're complaining about. Obviously, stages are arranged (approximately) in ascending difficulty for pure survival, so there will come a point when the least challenging stages won't seem very challenging to you. This is when you insert the additional challenge of chaining to kick it up a ton of notches, so that the early stages are back to a more interesting difficulty level. This applies for pretty much every game Cave has made (and most modern shmups) - it's very, very, very difficult to really have maxed out (and so have finished with) a stage in a Cave game, even first stages for the most part.

Regarding improvisation: your need to improvise will disappear the more you play the game and learn how it works, eventually only remaining in the patterns that can't be memorized due to having random elements like Hibachi's patterns. I would say that a good and in-depth knowledge is the most important thing for being good at any given shmup.

[Zengeku]

Uhhhh, MoF is pretty much ZUN's take on the DDP system.

Oh, I suppose he forgot the part about reducing your faith back to 50000 whenever you don't shoot an enemy for 0.5 seconds.

Regarding improvisation: your need to improvise will disappear the more you play the game and learn how it works, eventually only remaining in the patterns that can't be memorized due to having random elements like Hibachi's patterns. I would say that a good and in-depth knowledge is the most important thing for being good at any given shmup.

The need for improvisation is what keeps things interesting though.

[Erppo]

At what part did I call the systems identical?

Well to be honest, Guwange is a lot closer to the MoF system. Still, it's clearly inspired by those systems.

[Zengeku]

You never said that. My point is that the MoF system is nothing like the DDP system even if they have their similarities.

[Matsyzono Love]

If they have similarities, then it wouldn't be 'nothing like DDP', now would it?

[Zengeku]

Well... you got me there. 

But score is simple and requires little to no memorization. It is in that respect I think its nothing like MoF.

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

Actually it requires a lot of memorization. And MarisaC seems to be the only one that can even get close to full chaining some stages, and even then I don't think she can do them all.

And to be honest, MoF seems like one of the worst scoring systems in the series for me unless we're counting Phantasmagorias. At least MoF's scoring seems like it's the one that could be most improved upon.

[Erppo]

But score is simple and requires little to no memorization. It is in that respect I think its nothing like MoF.

Getting a good score always requires lots of memorization. This is completely regardless of the game, as long as the game in question is well enough designed. That is, in a good game there is always a best solution to every situation that will give you most score and if you don't have enough knowledge, you won't be scoring to your full potential. Only thing that differs is the relative amount of the advantage gained, but in every good game, the score you get without a good strategy is bad for your level of skill.

[Zengeku]

I'm not out to criticize the memorization dependant score systems. I'm just saying its not a score system for me. I love people executing runs of it, they are very impressive and I respect people for being able to score high on it. However, it just doesn't work with the way I prefer my shmups. I play only a few hours each week on average and there can easily be several weeks between each playing session of one particular game.

Scoring well in DoDonPachi is something that I simply don't have the necessary interest to invest time into learning it. Scoring in MoF is a lot better for me since it pretty much only requires me to perform well against the bosses and not miss. That is in its own right not an easy thing to do. There is some memorization yes but its not even close to comparable to the very strict paths you'll have to execute in DOJ.

Also, if you don't manage to fail to keep up the chain in MoF, the only consequence is dropping the point item value. In DDP, you lose your entire chain and so really lose the opportunity to score in that stage drops considerably.

[Erppo]

My point was mainly that when aiming for a high score, every single system is heavily memorization dependant. The difference of score between a good and a decent run in DDP is just a lot bigger than in MoF. An decent level score in DDP would consist of a big max bomb bonus and chaining the easier sections (the ones where you just have to hold fire and not get hit to chain). Of course every system is not for everyone, but I want people to realize that high level DDP is not really different from high level everything else. You're not reaching your full potential in MoF either if you don't have a strategy to minimize all faith loss and maximize full value item pickups in the stages. I can see though that the DDP system might not be very fun if you're not going for that high level (=fully chaining stages).

This is going far from the original point though, where I brought up the scoring as a suggestion on how to make the stages you complained of being boring more fun. If you have to play through those stages over and over again, then I don't see any reason to not start experimenting with the chains a bit.

[Zengeku]

Of course every system is not for everyone, but I want people to realize that high level DDP is not really different from high level everything else. You're not reaching your full potential in MoF either if you don't have a strategy to minimize all faith loss and maximize full value item pickups in the stages.

I realise that. However, decent scoring in MoF is simple and easy to do provided you have the skills to capture cards and avoid dying too much. Simple improvisation is just seriously inadequate in things like DOJ because of the chain gauge's unforgiving nature. You won't get a remotely decent score through simply improvising.

Savestates means I don't have to play those stages any longer though. I really like the 2nd half of DOJ and the second loop too. I think its an excellent game. I just don't dig the scoring too much so there really isn't any saving them. Especially since the OST for those stages competes with Futo's theme and UFO's Stage 2 and 6 themes in terms of dullness. But that's obviously just my tastes in music.

[ZengEren Jaeger]

fingers hurt
must rest

[Sapz]

Kickass job, Zengar.

Similarly, further progress!

[wailofthebanshee]

I survived for 5 seconds against Hibachi's last attack in daioujou.
I'd put this in the touhou accomplishments thread if this was touhou.

[Azinth]

Similarly, further progress!

Mad props for beating Landshark and Plasmo's scores.  Looking forward to that 2-all 

This game is kinda starting to make me rage again, so another 6-month break from it is probably in order.  That, and I'm sorta getting interested in Battle Garegga again.

[Sapz]

Thanks. I think I'll get the 2-all eventually, but getting consistency in the loop is a nightmare.

[Azinth]

Every time I get frustrated with this game and decide to put it away, I get a good run that sucks me right back in, damn it.   Though I seriously doubt I'll be able to beat this score without grinding 2-5 and 2-6.

[Sapz]

Awesome run! You'll overtake me at this rate.

[Sapz]

Streamed a live run of S99, never thought it'd turn out this well.



No misses or bombs on the first loop. Deaths on 2-3 Australia boss, 2-5 boss, 2-6 stage, and 2-7 stage. Got the techs for everything minus second loop's Ground Skater, and still died with a good few bombs in stock. This run was so much fun.

[よいし]

I wanted 1M but this'll do, gonna start working on TriggerHeart Exelica next

[Azinth]

Will a poll for the next SoTW be opening soon?  My internet has been acting up over the past week or so, and for some reason I can't get on to MoTK at random times.  So in case that happens again within the next day, my vote goes to Strikers '99

[Zengeku]

Is there anyone who could tell me how to record vids with Fraps on Shmupmame 2.2? Its weird, I can record stuff in Shmupmame 3.0 just fine.

I really want to record my DOJ 1cc because it was pretty hilarious imo. Too bad the INP is made with 2.2 and thus cannot be loaded by 3.0 - Suggestions anyone?

[Ratikal]

There should be an -aviwrite function with Shmupmame 2.2. Try this batch file.

Shmupmame_v22.exe <romname (no .zip)> -pb <inp name>.inp -aviwrite <name you want the avi to be>.avi so end result should look something like:
Shmupmame_v22.exe battlega -pb battlega_3_1233.inp -aviwrite battlega.avi

[Sapz]

Azinth: Next SotW starts on the week of the 19th, next week is a Touhou Tournament week.

[SAS]

Picked up Strikers II 1945 recently. Made it to 1-8 midboss once :I
Also, fuck yeah, my script won! I am the idiot princess!